So for a backswing, I like to feel less tension, the club to feel light. And by light I mean if you have tension in your hands and you're kind of leaning on your club and you take it back, the club's going to feel heavy. So what I mean by making it feel light, is just letting it, allowing it to travel up the ladder, for better words.

So you don't want-- you're not that concerned with where it is up there as far as the plane, upright, down, that none of that.

No.

I knew you were going to say that, by the way.

You know that's-- I'm more worried about my backswing doesn't hit the ball--

Right.

--my downswing does, my impact does. So I don't care if it's drawing stars as it goes backwards, as long as I can get it back to impact and it's solid and it's going where I think it's going--

And you can repeat it, yep.

--then, I'm a happy camper.

Good to go.

So as far as taking it back, same with chipping. I know Mike mentioned about the way I describe things. My feelings, sometimes I like to feel like I'm taking it back with my armpits. And that takes the hands out, the wrists, the hips, everything. So it all moves together. So you kind of have like maybe a little finger press in here. And all you're really doing is just really focusing on those armpits and that they go all together, everything's going to go together.

Goes with it.

Your arms not going to get disconnected. I think that's when I feel the worst in my golf swing is when I'm disconnected. And that's when this gets out or too far in and there's no connection between my hands and my upper body.

Yeah, you've lost the relationship or whatever you had going there.

Right.