So is the key to keeping that ball down, keeping the loft off the club, post-impact?

Post-impact. You can find guys that have a lot of shaft lean. You think, oh, that's going to go low, but right afterwards, the face lays back, the ball jumps up in there, and it goes mega high with no spin.

And so it's not so much how much that shaft's leaning at impact, but it's how the face reacts after impact as well.

Is that an arm, arm and body?

Well, like Duff's always good at lagging, because the grip's strong. And then he just goes left, and that lag keeps the club inside the ball, which keeps it shallow enough to--

I feel it in my right hand the best.

This angle stays uniform, right here?

Yeah, I never get-- well, I don't want to say "I never." The goal is to not have any of that.

You don't want any lay back.

Any lay back. So it's like we talked about before, if this is my club face angle, it can work this way, this way, or this way. I'm trying to take this out of it and stay this way.

It's not so much club face rotation. It's club face angle is was it is.

The amateur that's watching just might say, I might hook it if I did that.

And actually, most people, up to a certain point, if you contact the ball solidly, you'll actually get more spin with a low draw than you will with a high fade. Any shot high reduces spin.

Yes.

And so any time that face is laying back. So how does the face lay back? Open, lays back, OK? Or flip under lays it back. Or just keeping the hands in a reversed roll position, like Azinger used to do, but he had a strong grip.

He started with his head up over here, so he had some built-in over the top.

Absolutely, and so that's what you try to avoid. So the opposite of those is that you want to be this way and not scoop. You want to be this way, as opposed to reverse role. And then you want to be lofted like that, in order to keep the flight down.

The good players control the post-impact and the trajectory low with a lot of spin.

And you can see it. If you watch a lot of the young players, the when they've made their big leap in the world rankings is always when they've learned to do this. If you took Jason Day, always used to hit moon balls with all clubs.

Dustin Johnson--

And he learned to do that. You watch Justin Thomas now. You see him going to left with a lot of cut-off of his swing, and he's flighting all of these shots down like that. If you look at Dustin Johnson now, he's hitting all of these low wedges. That's why he's able to--

He's winning a lot of tournaments.

He's able to win a lot of tournaments.

That trajectory controls your distance, too.

Yes.

This is a huge--

Because it's so consistent, right?

--part of play.

You can measure. You can-- it's under control.

Yeah.

You can see it. You probably can't see that.

One hot stop.

That is ripping downwind. We've got about 15 miles an hour wind, and that thing took a skip maybe of three or four yards and then it just behaved, is what I call.

Bite like a police dog.

Yeah. And that's a pretty shallow divot, too. It's not like I got too steep. A lot of times you get steep on spin.