The Most Powerful Move In Golf

Featured Length Instructional Video: Golf coach Martin Ayers is joined by Steve Elkington and Mike Maves to discuss "The Most Powerful Move In Golf" and how the right arm and hand play a very key role in the swing.


- It's not that hard of game, people just make it hard. You can make anything hard, but the secret is to make hard things look easy.

- That's right.

- And he does that.

- Thank you, Mr. Burke.

- Doesn't matter what swing doctrine you adhere to, what you believe about the swing. You put this move with the right arm, this turbocharger on your swing, doesn't matter if you're young, old, male, female. Put it in there, and you'll know you'll be able to smash it instantly, twice as hard as you could before.


Tonight I need to find myself a roadhouse. It's Friday and I'm feeling low. Red and black, just line up the Jack. Throw out the cap and let the whiskey flow. All right. Hot damn, it's gonna be all right. Hot damned, I wanna play. Hot damn--

STEVE: When you know where the face is, you're going to be able to put the face on the ball and smash it.

- So how all this came together is pretty simple. I mean, you found me on the web--

- Yeah, well, you and I have been friends for ages and we built Secret in the Dirt. And you have a lot of connections throughout the country that you tap into. One like Jerry Starks, down in Florida.

- Right. Well Jerry-- Jerry and I had talked about the swing, and we'd talked about Abe Mitchell, and a lot of other things. And Jerry was carrying on a conversation with me in Canada and carrying on a conversation on similar lines with Martin in Australia, through the web and the phone and everything else. And uh, and--

- You guys said, you, you should take a look. You told me, you should take a look at Martin.

- Yes I did.

- --in Australia. So I did.

- Yeah.

- And um, one of the things that I, you know, one of the things that I immediately noticed right off the bat was the guy obviously, you know, had some skill in what he was doing, what I was just seeing. So that prompted me to call him.

- Right.

- Like I did you. I just, I just went and called him. And that, that's how we initially met.

- That's right.

- And I decided right then and there that I was going to fly over and get a lesson from where he was coaching. Kind of like I did with you.

- Right.

- Except we met in New York.

- Right.

- And you came down from Canada. And right away, after being with Martin for an hour, I realized that, uh, that what he had was something that was really, really good; really good.

I almost won the PGA this year. You know, almost came the closest to the oldest player ever to win a major. But I thought to myself after I'd come back from Martin's lesson, and we were here for six days, I said to myself, I'm going the opposite way that I've always gone. And I know it's not leaving.

Now, people have always said I've got a great swing which, hey, that's great. But in a strange way, I'm no different to anyone else where I sort of have the positions really good, but I've always lacked-- sometimes I would lack that punch on the ball. I don't lack it anymore. I don't lack it any more.

And I said to myself, Martin has absolutely nailed it. He's absolutely nailed whatever myth, whatever secret, whatever--

- Mystery of where the power comes from.

- It is over. It's history.

- Fog's gone.

- The fog has lifted. And that's what we're gonna-- we're going to unleash it today.

Where did it start? You started looking at tape, is that right?

- Yeah, I was watching, you know, I was on holiday, just watching golf swings. Which seems funny for a golf pro to be watching golf swings on holiday, but that's what I was doing.

First thing I saw was the arms. I noted the arm movement looked to me to be in one direction. Almost like, you could say, a curve in one direction. If you draw a circle on a piece of paper, you're just going one direction, you're back at the end of the circle. That's what I saw in the arms.

This idea that you would make a half circle and then return on the same circle is not what I saw. That's what I had in mind prior to that.

- You didn't see that.

- No, I saw--

- That's what you've been seeing for all these years.

- Right. Once I started focusing on what my right arm was doing, I started thinking about ways in which I could use my right arm more effectively in the swing to guarantee that I knew where this was going.

It's not rocket science, it's not never been done before, it's not never been seen before. I just think that, if you, if you took the collected works of all the writers between 1910 and 1940, it's all there.

- Right.

- But you've got to put it together.

- One direction, you mean that your arm was going this way, and it never, it never came back. It's always going the same direction relative to me.

- Relative to you.

- --to me. So it's always going in one direction relative to me.

- OK.

- I didn't have to go this way and then come back.

- I got you. So that was just, that was just your, your first thought.

- First thought was I didn't have to go this way and come back. Or this way and come back. I could just go--

- And the reason that you, you abandoned conventional was because it wasn't working, right? You had nothing.

- Well, yeah, some days--

- It's not what you saw.

- No. Some days I had a lot and other days I felt like I had nothing.

- OK. So you started going one way.

- Yeah, I started going one way. And I saw it with both arms and saw it in the arms first. And then after trying it on the range and then trying to double it up, double it up, get the arms going more and more in the other direction, I started to feel my body reacting to that by sort of going the other way to the arms.

- So you went a different way from that.

- Yeah. After some testing with the arms going the opposite way and by that one direction, I started to feel the body balancing that out by always going the other direction of the arms. So I ended up, this thought popped in my mind of one of those pitching machines or a cricket bowling machine. Where you've got these two spinning discs going completely the other way.

- People put a ball in and it shoots out.

- The body, the body's in-- inside here. It's spinning, my arms are spinning the other way, but they return. The shoulder's a ball joint, it's got 360 degrees of movement. So it can keep going in one direction and return. And so for me, I had this feeling that I was sort of slinging. And my shoulder was moving in its full range of motion. So always felt like it's a back swing until the moment that the club would strike the ball.

It was a great feeling because the ball was just--

- Like a rocket.

- --shooting out of me. And the more I could get this opposition in there, the harder it would spit out of me.

- So let me get this straight. You went out to the range, you saw something in all these swings that we've been looking at for all these years, looking at different parts. And you saw one circle going one way and the body going the other, all the way. And it was creating torque against one another all the way.

- So you start out with a, a certain size to you-- to the swing. And it just felt like it was getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger until I couldn't stop it from hitting the ball any longer.

- Couldn't stop it any more.

- Couldn't stop it. I didn't have to add to that. It had started out a certain size, this pull of band or stretch or whatever, and it just got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. Just kept getting bigger until it slammed down on the ball.

- Couldn't stop it.

- Yeah. I never once changed direction, in my mind, of what I was doing. So I might as well have been going down a straight road.

The first thing that has to be done is we've got to sort of a shock to the system a little bit. We can't just sort of stand up with a square, very conventional stance with no dynamics built into it and then expect you to have this dynamic action come out of that.

- So there's, there's some building blocks that stack around this to sort of guarantee it, for lack of a better term.

- Yeah.

- So we're in the bunker and when you first showed me this move, we spent a lot of time in here because I, I, I had to see it on the ground, like a diagram.

- This is how Elk and I went through this, you know. Went through this twirling, twirling of the right arm that way and then having it come out. And this was-- he wanted the exact. He didn't want, you know, what it felt like, or anything. We did this piece by piece. And the amazing thing about Elk was he, you know, he was grabbing my right hand as I did it. With his eyes closed, he was feeling what I was doing and then he'd, he'd draw the picture.

- You're going to, you're going to share that, share that, those images here with us. Explain it to us, so what, when the player's over the ball and they picture the, where they're going. What it, what it, if they had a crayon in their hand, what it would look like.

- I'm just going to draw a representation of the arc of the swing here. This way. Because I know the swing's got to be a circle. I have where the ball's going to be. So I've got myself right here. The line so I know where the ball position is relative to my, relative to my left foot. And then we've got-- our body's going to be wound forward, so it's going to be wound into this. If you look at this where the ball position is and then where the plane line is, the line, the target line, we're going to be wound into this sort of quadrant over here on the circle.

So to get the feeling where the body is going to always be providing resistance in this circular motion while the arm's going to be going the opposite way. We're going to set our body up where it's turned towards the hole. Then it's the whole body. Both legs, feet. Feel like the chest and hips also and then you're just going to return your shoulders back and arms to the ball. You're going to try and hold the chest out towards the target here.

Extreme version of this, this drill would be where both, both feet are facing parallel to the line of flight.

- And that's how you like to start your students?

- I like to start them this way, yeah.

- Because this is where it gives them the maximum feel?

- Yeah, it's easy for me to feel the torso, hips, torso, and legs all turning this way.

You're aiming down range with your torso, your legs, your whole body.

- Right. And I want you to maintain that intent, target-ward--

- Yeah.

- --with that whole structure of the body.

- OK.

- Just going to take your hands, you'll see past your right leg right here.

- I see.

- How far can you go if you maintain that tension with the body toward the target, how far-- it's about--

- Not very far.

- Not very far, exactly.

- What do you feel, Mike? You feel anything under your gut-left or anything like that?

- I'm feeling, I'm feeling it here and I'm feeling it back here.

- Like a, like some torque.

- Oh yeah, oh yeah.

- Almost like you're going to run down the fairway there. Like that. And just make the same swing, but just with feet aiming there.

- Feel like your chest is out in front of the-- show him what you, you mean by that.

- Yeah, now your chest is out in front here. Just let your left arm come across your chest. Here, and square your shoulders up, So your shoulders are square. So you're almost like you're running towards the target. That's good.

- Oh. There we go.

- Got more wallop or--?

- It's just easier to find the ball again, isn't it?

- So I'm going to step up there, I'm going to put my left, left heel on the other side of this line. And as I set up, I'm going to feel that my body's wound in towards this half of the circle. OK?

Now with this here, it's not-- I'm not going to tell everybody exactly where that needs to be. OK? Everybody's going to be different. Everybody has a different centers of gravity and balance points and all that. But you find that, as long as your body tries to endeavor to wind into this quadrant here, you're going to get that resistance in the initial part of the swing.

- Once you've got the student into this position, the first thing they should feel is that this is, this is coming in, and now all of a sudden, I've got enormous amount of grab right here. Or what I call like re- like a re- it wants to come back this way.

- That's right.

- OK. So that's what you're building here.

- Yeah, exactly.

- This is like phase one. This is the first feel, is this away, right?

- Yeah.

- And then you can't go any further from here.

- That's right.

The body, of course, will turn to the right when you look at any golf swing. But we're going to try and go internal here and have it always resist that. You never have to add any of that with the body.

That way you send the hands and arms and the club and the mass of the club will drag the body around with it.

- Your intent's the other way.

- That's right. The intent's always the other way.

- And the first step of that is, you set that-- you get yourself, as you were showing there--

- That's right it gets set to where the body's turned towards the ball.

- That gives you the intent that you're--

- --help you feel it straight away.

OK, so getting back to a more conventional-looking set-up where we can put this same feeling and intention into that set-up, with our feet now aiming the more conventional fashion. The right foot square and left foot's open. But if I were to take my whole body now and just aim it out towards the target there, I can do that without having my feet pointed.

- Because your intent is there.

- That's right. The intent is there.

- And when you say intent, you-- you mean that, that your brain says you're leaning that way? No.

- No. I'm aiming there.

- You feel like you're, you're there.

- That's right.

- Aiming there.

- Aiming there.

- The reason I like the word intent--

- Chest, chest just feels more sort of there, where you're going.

- That's right.

- OK.

- The reason I like the word intent is because, once you get the picture this motion, it becomes one motion and you only need one intent. And that's to make this motion happen.

- All right.

- And that's what's been the most beneficial thing to me, so I like to use the word intent a lot.

So, you're set up more or less conventionally. We'll take it in and sort of catch that limitation. We can feel the load through the whole body, not just one side or another. Feel it through the whole body, because the whole body is resisting [INAUDIBLE]

- If I talk about the body's turning toward the target, think of that like a spiral going this way. Like a drill, if you like. It's just going this way. So the arms are going to go the other way. That's what I was saying earlier about-- it starts out a certain size, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, all the way through.

So I've found the best way to demonstrate the arm action is using both arms and just clasping together here. I'm going to do this with this unconventional body position so I can maximize it. If we go to the absolute extreme of what we can do physically, we're going to be able to feel this a lot, a lot better. Now, you won't do this to this extent in the golf swing, but you'll get the feel of what your maximum is about.

So start with both hands clasped together here with my thumbs sort of pushing together. And I'm going to turn-- turn the arms. The very first thing I'm going to do is turn the arms so that the thumbs would still be aiming at the ball here-- very first thing. And I'm going to do that because I want to contain the mass of the club. Just like I've got this first little piece between arms and body that's going to be-- I know where that's always going to be. It's a very small piece. I can manage that. Same with that.

STEVE: You still got the weight of the club still there.

- It's almost like leaving the head of the club on the back of the ball.


- It only has to be-- it's only an inch.

STEVE: But it's an important inch. It's a very important inch.

- It's important, it's an important one.

And I'm going to take my hands what's going to feel like directly in, sort of past my right toe here. This way. That's for that first one inch that we're talking about where we want to keep this, the head, on the ball this way.

So my body's wound and resisted toward the target. And I'm going to take it directly in. And there's the point, as I said earlier, where the arms, now my whole body's loaded up. It's only a very small move before that happens and then body will follow it up here.

Well, the arms are going to still aim toward the ball, leaving like the club head is left on the ball. Just the very first move. The reason I like to do this is because I want to let the club head swing very freely through the swing. But if I just let it go freely straight away then I've lost it. It's gone, I no longer have containment over it, I don't have it gathered in. Just like if my body, if I send my body this way, I don't have it as contained.

The reason for winding in and coming in is it's going to balance this inbalanced torque. [INAUDIBLE] So that's going to get that-- the club that wants to roll open, if left to its own devices, wants to roll open. And the head wants to fly away from us. So that first move is going to counter those two things that this tool wants to do, get out of your control.

STEVE: I made you draw it for me. And of course, we now, you know, now, now it's ingrained and it looks one, one piece. But I'd go back and it would make this little half moon. We called that a half moon. And we've done some videos on Secret in the Dirt with this. But--

MARTIN: That's right.

- So I basically, I did the lead lag, and I went as far as I could with my hands until, until almost they touched.

- Well, first you scrape your fingernails, till you think it's far enough. Then right there, you just turn exactly over and there's your back swing. Then you hold it, then you just let it come through.

- We talked today, Sam, you said that, um, you know, we talked about the half moon. He and I and you, we came up with scratch your fingernails. People have heard that for the first time today, but Sammy said, scratch your fingernails against money in your pocket. That gets that one taken care of and then, then the other way.

Wind it all the way far as I can that way towards me. And you'll see, from this view here, you'll see that that's going in. And wound this way. You'll also see a bit of an angle in my right wrist.

MARTIN: You've got this initial sort of inward, inward rolling thing that, if it kept going, would go out here. If it kept going there, but it can't-- just, you're reaching a sort of an endpoint of how much you can take it in because the body's resisting the other way. The body's not going with it. So that's that.

It looks like a lot more than an inch here, the way Elk's drawn it. But in reality, the club head momentum will start to take that shape out very early on in the piece. It might only be for an inch that it moves that way and then it's going to roll up the other way. Yeah. OK.

When you get to the top of the swing where this is-- this circle here, it's rolled up. It's rolled up and it's behind you here.

- I was looking at Abe Mitchell. I read, read his books and they're fantastic books. And he talks about muscle winding and everything, but his pictures of his swings, he was, he was like this. And Bobby Jones, all these old players, they all had this kind of a lead lag thing. But it's not sort of a lead lag straight, it goes in. And if you take that, and you've got it in, now the only place it can really go if it's gone as in as it can go, it can only now go up. It's not going to go in, up, and then more in.

And I'm going to come up this way and I'm going to start winding it the other way. Where I want the hand almost like it's going to go behind the arm. My hand's going to go behind my arm, forearm's going to get loaded up. Body's winding this way. And the arm's going to wind the other way. So you can see that there. This hand is going, winding behind this forearm and this forearm is winding behind the upper arm. That's the direction of the spiral.

STEVE: That's what we're looking for?

- We're looking for that in opposition to the body's resistance. The whole body, again.

See this forearm? It's almost like the bones want to come out of the forearm, out of here. And the great thing about this is you can't see it in the swing. You can't see it in Steve Elkington's swing, you can't see it in my swing. I wish you could. I wish I could put so much of that in there that it was visible, because the more I put in here, I'm going to the end of the feeling. And when you go to the end of the feeling, you can go there every day and you'll be in the same position. You'll know you can smash the ball from here.

- Pointing at it, pointing at it, pointing at it, pointing at it, keeps going, keeps going, keeps going, and it gets to a point where it's all torqued and twisted and it can't go any further.

MARTIN: That's exactly right.

- And you're at the back, you've got your authentic, twirled-up, powerful, loaded back swing.

- You can see it right there, that's the way we worked on it.

- Yeah.

- You're going to follow the road map of the spine up through the center of your body. It's still winding the other way. All the way to the end, as far as you can go that way.

STEVE: It won't go any further.

- Won't go any further than that.

STEVE: That's, that's, that's your, sort of your back swing?

- That's it.

STEVE: Yeah.

- All right, now--

STEVE: And of course it looks this way right now but it won't have that there when the left hand's on it.

- No. And that was a bit of--

STEVE: --you've got all kind of-- everything's all like, I can see it's going that way and this is going that way. And when you turn the other direction that's, keeps going back.

- That's right.

- And now you've got tons of, you see that, Mike?

- Yeah.

- Tons of power there. Tons of it. Right?

- Plus, I know where it is.

STEVE: You know where it is, and you've got this end feel.

- I've aimed it all the way. So I've got that. And I've also got this feel of-- I know where it is. Because it's all the way through my body, I know where it is.

If you were to be holding a big, heavy sandbag and you wanted to get that big, heavy sandbag to the top of the swing, you wouldn't take it out here, that's kind of, feel very weak. You haven't got that under control, that sandbag. But if you'd take it in here, close to you, and gather it in, you could use your body now, in conjunction with that, and you could get that heavy sandbag to that position.

Well, that's what we've got here. We've got a turbocharged right arm that's got all of that weight and mass that we can take straight to the ball.

It's gathered in and then as it's wound, your body's there supporting it. The right arm is winding behind. The right forearm and right wrist are winding behind the arm and the left arm is supporting that. To me, that feels like I'm swinging it into a slot and I can swing it in there every day. And I know where the face is, I know I've got some power, and I know that I can hit down on the ball.

Key point to this, and I want people to get this feeling, it's very important that when you're doing this right-arm move or drill, just to try and get this feeling in your body. You don't want to lead-- if you lead with your elbow, you've lost it all, you've got nothing. You're trying to take your hand, aim that, and that's, your hand's going to go up.

And the elbow will do what it's going to do based on what the hand does. It's not, you're not going to try and pull the elbow, you're not trying to move the shoulder. The sequence is the hand, the hand then the arm, then the shoulder. Don't want to do anything with the elbow. Just let the elbow do what it needs to do. [INAUDIBLE] Don't want to jack it this way or this way. That's a very important piece.

- And I made you show me the picture. Guess what? You can't see it.

- No, you can't see it.

- So that encouraged me, that this was sort of an internal--

- Right.

- Doesn't show up as abstract. Shows up as just standard.

- Standard. Very standard.

- One of the first things that clicked in to me was that sort of face awareness, of where, where that face is. And the club felt, you know, sort of abstract. But I knew it didn't bother me because, because I knew where it was.

- That's right.

- So we know this represents the face of the club.

- Right.

- And for, for, for, you know, just for quick, brief moment there, we, you know, we want that to leave with a flat left wrist and a square club face ball to leave.

- That's right.

- OK? That's a non-negotiable part of--

- It's got to be in there.

- That's one of the laws. Now there's other ways to do it, but you're going to, that'll be a variation of the one that we really want.

- The back of the left hand is the face. The right hand is the mass. And I'm going to wind the right arm as I've described, in this fashion, as much in as I can. It's going to come up here, and it's going to be wound back the other way as much as it can, and I'm going to turn the other way.

Now, you're going to know where the face is because the back of the left hand's the face, and as you wind the right arm in this fashion, the left arm and the back of the left hand, are working in unison with that right arm.

Back of the left hand, the left arm is accommodating that right-arm move, and you will know where the face is because you're winding towards the face with the mass. And I don't know any other way you can use your right arm in the golf swing to where the actual mass is aiming at the mass.

The mass is behind you, it's over there. It's not over there, it's not out the back of the swing. You don't have to aim the mass away from the mass. You can aim it towards it. This way. So you will know where the face is. You'll have a very acute awareness where that face is and you'll have this power and the awareness of the face, and you'll be able to put it on the ball.

And here, when you get to the top, it's going to feel like you have the face of the club right there.

- That's representing it right there.

- That's right.

- That's what it, that's what it looks and feels like.

- That's right. So you're basically containing that, you know where it is.

- Yeah.

- It's not flying out over here.

- Doesn't concern you.

- No.

- So in your brain right now, you, you've got-- I can see the face on, I drew it on there. That's where your br-- your brain's thinking about that, that there.

- Yeah. And it's, and it's-- the face is exactly where that feels.

- OK.

- It is.

- This was a position that I felt was, you know, abstract. But for some reason, you know I've played golf all my life. It felt really, a strange position and everyone else will too, but it didn't really worry me at the time because I knew I was just going to really do something with it.

- --into it right?

- So, so was that, was I correct in that thinking?

- Yeah. You were correct in thinking that it feels abstract because this being the mass, you probably never aimed the mass at the actual mass.

- Roll it up, with my drill.

- OK, so this, if, if-- the right hand, we drew a face on the right hand here. It's forward, all right? It's never pointing, it's never pointing back over here somewhere.

- Right.

- It's always forward and it's been forward from the start.

- Pointing forward.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- That's the abstract feel, right? The right hand's, the palm of the right hand always feels forward.

- OK.

- It's always towards you.

- OK.

- OK.

- So as you said, up the spine.

- Yeah.

- So it feel-- you know, up the spine.

- Yeah. Doesn't look that way when you do it in real time, but it feels that way.

- Feels like it's always facing you, right? Always.

- And of course I wanted to note as well, while you're saying that, this is why we're doing it--

- Yeah.

- --is we're going to get the huge payoff, the huge-- To be quite honest with you, the most enjoyable part of my swing is rolling that up.

- Yeah.

- I really like smashing it--

- Yeah.

- --but I really also like rolling it up to the end.

- Yeah.

- I really, I really enjoy that.

- Yeah.

- It feels, it feels really good. I know exactly where I'm going. And it, it's, it's outright fun to do.

- Yeah.

- We haven't talked anything about any positions today, about, you know, in this tape at all about-- and we know there's a reason for that. And-- and just as a, just as an example, you and I did this last night, but, here's my arm-length, right? OK, I'm over the, I'm over the-- the ferrule on that, right?

- Yeah.

- OK. So use your right, you use your right arm. OK. So I got massively long arms, big deal, but I'm down here, right? So that's a lot of difference.

- Big difference. So we're not going to have the same swing.

- So I can't copy you. So, one of the things I like so much about-- one of the things I like so much about this tape is-- well, I've done this experiment with everyone-- my son, all the people I've taught this to is-- when I go up, I can tell immediately where this is going to suit me the best.

If you say, Elk, put your hand down here on the shoulder plane, doesn't feel good there. Now, I've-- in the past, I would have thought that might have been some sort of a mechanical-- mechanical advantage to-- to fight it down there and try to pick up some of that, but I know instantly that I need to be right-- right there.

- Yeah.

- Not there. Not there. I need right there.

- Yeah, and you know within, you know, if it's here it's no good.

- No good.

- No good for you.

- And the point is, the student will know right away. Mike I'd like you to step in and I'd like you to show us where-- where you would feel good. And I've always, for example, if you-- just hold it there, Mike. If-- if I move you, one-- is that any good?

- No, I got nothing.

- What about back there.

- Yes.

- OK, so is it safe to say, is it, it's real specific, Mike.

- Yeah, you just you can feel--

- Now if I stood, you stay there and do that again, and I stood here, OK. So Terry, you get a good view here, of these, Martin, you stand one more down.

- You won't be able to see me behind Elk, but I'll stand a little this way.

- So we're all in our most powerful position here, right? I'm sure the camera will show up that they're-- they're all very different. But I feel very, confident, Mike, I don't know about you, and I know Martin is, but do you think you can do that every time? It's just a sort of a straight-line feel, is it?

- Yeah, well, I can do it every time just because once you get going, you-- you just recognize that you're--

- You're where you want to be.

- --you're there.

- It's not-- not as hard to go when you know it's where you want to be.

- What's been the payoff by working with Martin? You know, you got a lesson, what'd you get, one lesson or something?

- Yeah--

- You spent the week with us in Philly.

- Philly, yeah.

- Yeah.

- Uh, not only the power, but I can also feel like I can aim wherever I'm going with my elbow to my target.

- Yeah. You and I, we put it up there like that and we were like, OK, where do I, where do I put it right here, where it feels good? Show me, show me, show everyone what we worked on. He put-- twirled it up and he put it where he wants it. Probably a bit higher up, up he wanted it, yeah. It's like, OK.

- Like right there.

- All right. Right there.

I literally stood here in one of the tournaments this summer that I did quite well in. And I just put my hand up there and I said, you know what? That feels too far left. I need to be sort of-- I need to be there. Then I would just unravel it back to the start real quick. And then went. [INAUDIBLE] And I think what I was doing was, I was teaching myself how to aim this new action.

- And I think we've learned from Geoff Mangum's tape. You know, Mangum's got some amazing ideas on how to get the brain comfortable with the space you're in.

- Yeah.

- And what you just did there was, you've got a machine now. You're where you want to be. You know you've got the power. So you just had to figure out-- take that whole machine and aim it.

- That's right.

- Take the whole show and aim it.

- Yeah. And-- and you know that point that we talked a little bit about yesterday, that-- that the two words that we don't hear much about anymore was leverage and winding, right? They used those back when they-- Abe Mitchell wrote his book. His whole book was based on winding. And it's been on our site, Secret in the Dirt.

But it's funny, when I go to that spot, I nail both those words. Someone said-- I got both. I've got leverage because I know I'm on a, I'm on a, I'm on a straight shot to where I'm going. And I have tons of power right here. And I have winding.

- Right.

- Someone said, what do you feel like there? I'll say I got leverage and I have a-- a boatload of power, a boatload of winding.

- I'm going to set myself up here. I'm going to wind that right arm up. Move my feet around, move my hips, move everything around. Where does my body feel best to put this straight on the ball when I turn the other direction?

If I sit up here and I go wound up right arm, and move over here, well that's no good. That doesn't feel like I can smash it from there. Down here's no good. Right here is good. I know I can smash from there when I turn the other direction. I can go straight at it.

The urge here might be to go back the other way. That might be what your first instinct would tell you to do. You get here, you might feel like, well I got to return it. I've come up on this track. I'm going to return it back down that track. Like the semicircle.

But what I want you to do is, when you get to the top of the swing, is turn your body toward the target and keep the arms turning back. So you just increased it. You can do that again and again until you can't increase it any longer. And it's going to unload on the ball.

STEVE: Tremendous amount of torque. I can see it in you just-- I can see it right there in his, in his arms.

- It feels like a lot. It's a-- that's a lot more than I can create with a golf club in my hands, but that's why I like to do it this way, because I can really feel what is happening.

- Your intent's still this way.

- That's right. That's right.

- And then you're going to go the other way. And that's-- the hammer throw right? That's the guy, right?

- Now the hammer throw, very important, you're not trying to pull anything. It's a rotation.

STEVE: That's not what we're doing here.

- No, we're not pulling it. We're not pulling it in here and we're not pushing it out. We're just continuing to go--

STEVE: Opposites.

- Opposites. We're not changing direction all of a sudden and bouncing out of it.

So in the drill, the reason I use the ball as a reference for this drill is that's my intent, is to strike that object down there. So I'm going to aim at that the whole way. Even though I'm winding away from it here, I'm still aware that I'm aiming at it.

Your body will have followed this and then you're going to turn your body the other way as this is still going back. You're going to try and turn your body back into this quadrant. Key point here I want to make is, it's like the button on your shirt your belt buckle, they're going to turn together.

So we've taken it in, twirled it up against the resistance of the body. The body's going to follow it up here to the position where I know I can smash it from. Now I'm going to keep going that way as I turn the other way with the body. Here, out in front.

So when you go to turn your body to hit the ball, it's going to feel like it's still going back this way. That's that right arm feel, yeah? So it's still going back that way.

You want to keep winding it back there as you turn the other way. And now when you get to this feeling, you'll feel some opposition there. You're going in two different directions. That feeling of opposition there is what you're going to have to hit the ball with. And you're going to feel like you can just go straight down to the ball with more power than you've had before.

I'm going to keep going in that direction. I'm going to keep aiming behind me. I'm going to turn my body, my torso, my hips, and even my legs are going to turn back toward the target. While that's still going back in that direction. Now from here, those things just continue to go in that direction. All the way to the finish.

If you look at the V on his sweater and his belt buckle, it's the same all the way. That's the biggest problem and people talk about, it's the hips, the hips, so they do the hips and they leave the chest behind and now they're too far under. So you got the problem-- most good players tend to be too far under because they leave the chest behind. Oden left the arms behind. The chest was gone.

Would you agree that his left leg is turned to the left from the ball as much as his hips?

- Right.

- What about his right leg? Probably true, right? All turned. So everything below his shoulder girdle has turned more or less the same amount in front of the ball.

- Right

- His shoulders are pretty square right here, if not probably still slightly closed.

- Right.

- And his arms are lagging behind. Now, his head is looking back here, so it's like his lower body's gone one way and his arms and shoulders are still going the other way. Involuntary smash.

- Right. Action-reaction.

- Right.

Now, as you keep winding that direction, turn your body the other way, toward the target. OK, one more. One more. Start again. Go to the top there for me. OK. I don't want you to sort of tilt-- tilt this way. I just want you to take that whole body that you've stabilized on the back swing, I want you to turn it all together. As this is going the other way. There you go. How's that feel?

STEVE: That's a different look for you, Mike, eh?

- Yeah, I don't open up like that.

STEVE: Yeah, that looks like you're going to hit down on it like crazy, though.

MARTIN: Right.

- Right.

MARTIN: You can see here, that if you just would have dumped those fists, you'd be--

- Right.

- When you're now talking about the-- the down-- OK? The-- the key to that is that right arm-- the reason I wind it towards me this way, and the reason you'll want to wind it towards you this way and the whole way-- the reason for that is, this is wound against that backward feeling of the-- of the club head.

I'll show you what I mean. This is kind of a-- I see that as being a back. That's back. Now this is-- if this is the face, that's forward, right? So it's forward-- always forward, even though it feels relative to the body that the club's going back. It is forward--

- So it's just sort of a bit of different terminology here, but it's just-- we just sort of wade through that--

- Try and wade, yeah--

- --as Sam said, just do it, it's easy.

- Right.

- Right?

- Yeah.

- But-- but--

- But people are going to want to know a little bit more. Let's say, if I'd of-- if I just sort of took it back here with nothing on it. If I just sort of folded my arms against my body as my body turned and I came down and I tried to do that same thing, try to just drop it back, just drop it back, drop it back, drop it back. Well, it's going to drop back too far and at some point I'm going to have to bring it in. We're building in all of that force this way into the load in the back swing so you don't have to add to that.

If your body's turned into here and aiming more forward, you can go more directly vertical. If your body stayed aiming back behind the ball, then you would have to have some side-to-side power there. You'd have to drag it either with the left or you'd have to push with the right in order to get to the ball first.

So now that you kind of know the space that you're in, you can work within that space. And a good place to practice it's in the bunker. Getting to the top of the swing to where you know you can smash it from, right here. And then you want to feel like you're still going in the two directions until your body is aiming forward enough that you feel you can just plow straight down into the ball.

You don't want to get up here where you know you've got it and just unload it, OK? You want to keep going in the two directions here until you know you're far enough around on this arc of the swing that you don't have to push, get forward, or try and find the ball. You know that you can just go straight into the ball.

When you turn the other direction, you want to keep putting it in, keep putting it in, keep putting it in, and it will unravel. All of this is going to unravel on the ball. And you don't want to run out of right arm too soon. As I was working on this myself in the initial stages-- when I started working in this way-- I was running out of right arm too soon. That meant to me that-- it wasn't that I was doing the wrong motion with my arm, it was that I had to get my body into a different position by the time I hit the golf ball.

It wasn't a matter of me timing-- timing this action, because if I go to the end of this feel and I keep going there, keep going there, I don't really have a say in the timing of this. It's going to unload itself. So what I have to do is, I have to get my body to be aiming in a certain position, which for me is out here on the arc. You will eventually get to know your position where your body should be so that you still got some right arm to put on the golf ball here.

- And you keep winding your arms back, back, back, you sort of get this frying-pan feel like the-- the face is to the sky, which is totally different, right?

- Right.

- But you've got all this magical wind here in the arm. Is that right?

- Exactly. And how is that-- how is that-- how is that-- delivered on the ball?

- That's delivered on the ball, probably best seen down the line. Still winding back, still winding back so--

- Still winding back.

- Still winding back.

- Yeah.

- Right? So from there, in a traditional back-and-forward type of thinking in a golf swing-- OK-- you might have to go that way to square it up. But if you're just going to keep letting it go back--

- It feels like it's going back. Of course-- and then-- so is it-- is it--

- I was [INAUDIBLE] up that way.

Yeah, it's like you can feel basically straight down. No forward.

- And you said this yesterday-- can I-- can I try that? So I-- I go up, and I said to you-- we worked on this all summer-- I go up, up, up, up, up. Put it in that position. I feel like the face is, you know, really open, right? But I'm not concerned because I'm going to keep going back, keep going back, keep going back, keep going back. And my release now becomes down, down to the ball and my arm is going to unspiral right-- bang onto that spot.

- Exactly. And I think the reason that-- reason is that you can have that-- you're never trying to have any side-to-side power here. It's all the down in the head.

- But this is different. This has got a-- this is-- this is ballistic.

- You're just going to turn the whole sho-- the whole body, right? Now from there, you've gone the other direction again, see?

- Right. Now from-- if you've just turned, you haven't slid, you're not pulling it.

- Right.

- You're not pushing or pulling.

- Right.

- You just dump it down. And you see how, when Mike's still hanging on to everything there--

- Yeah.

- When you go down there and you're hanging on-- you're hanging onto angles or you're holding angles, you can see that this is still bent, this left wrist.

- Right.

- Right? What about if you just unloaded on it. Just unload on-- go to the top-- start from scratch and go to the top and just unload on it. Straight down. There you go.

STEVE: All winds up, doesn't it?

- So-- that in-- you-- you talked about it seeming like a linear intent.

- Right.

- Yeah. So that-- that linear intent means that I don't have to-- as I'm swinging down, I don't have to manage how much I'm rolling.

- Right.

- I don't need to roll. I just keep going the same direction and go down.

- Right.

- It's going to unload it all. It's going to unload all those angles that you've loaded up on the back swing without the need to change direction. Think of it like a steering wheel-- you don't have to turn the wheel.

When you get to the top of the swing where this is-- the circle here. It's rolled up. It's rolled up and it's behind you, here. The hand's winding behind the forearm, the forearm's winding behind the upper arm. And that's going to still continue as you turn the other way, till you turn far enough that it becomes this straight-line delivery into the ball. So that's another way you can set yourself up to learn this motion.

- Yeah. It's straight-line delivery, as you've shown. Just set up like you're going to hit from the top. Just as important-- it's a straight line-- as just-- Mike just found out is straight line that way.

MARTIN: That's right. Exactly.

- And that's what makes you aim it so good.

MIKE: Yeah.

- That's what-- that's what gives you the ability to aim it so good.

- Me-- that's the-- that's the way, for me, forward was consis-- the consistency of it. Not only the first day-- the very first day I did it did I regain all the power that I'd thought I'd lost because I was maybe getting a bit slow or whatever, but I also had some consistency.

- --of your move, as I see it, it was-- it was here, up the spine as the belly rolls over and then it was just-- it was just a straight-line shot.

If I did that I lost it. But if I-- as Martin says, I go that way and that goes further, doesn't it look like I got more?

- Yeah.

- And doesn't it look like I got more?

- Yeah.

- And doesn't it look like I got more?

- Yeah.

- It's sort of like one of those "USA Today" pictures you see of pitchers in the, uh-- when they give a snapshot of a guy that's thrown a-- a great game, his arm's sort of--

- Yeah, or a tennis server.

- Wait you know, those snapshots of those guys--

- And here's your face, still looking at you.

- --there's the face--

- You got it--

- --of the club--

- --contained. You know where it is.

- And I-- and I'm going to go, pow. And just everything-- gone into the ball there. Is that right?

- Yep. You don't leave any on the--

- --on the table.

- No. Put it all in there.

And just loading that right arm, the palm's facing behind you. And then the palm stays facing behind you, keeps working that way. And you turn the other way, that's when you get the same feel every time. You can just smash it, put it down on the ball.

- The release feels better.

- Yeah. It's more automatic, isn't it? The release. It's got to-- because you know, when you put all of that in, you know it's got to come out. You can't hold it all.

- It does-- you can-- I do feel that.

- You do feel that?

- I feel like I'm all over the place.

- That's great. Just go straight to the ball.

Well, see to me he's still going the other way at this point, Tom. He's-- he's not-- he's not-- he's not--

- You never give up on it, right?

- Yeah.

- You just-- you're here, you're here, and I-- I-- never know when I'm giving up on it. I never give up on it.

- No, it's just that you can't help but give up on it, right?

- I mean, where I am here, right? I'm already-- and I've put one more-- I'm already-- I'm already-- already hit it.

- Yeah.

I resist with the body, I'm going to take it back and twirl it up. I'm going to keep twirling it that way as I turn my body and then I can hit straight down.

Now, if I turn my body enough into this forward quadrant here, I'm not going to hit the ground behind the ball, no matter how much downforce I feel.

I'm going to put my left hand out on the side of my body for this drill. And put my right arm out in front of me like so. So what you'll feel here, is when you go through this right-arm motion, now as you turn-- as you turn towards the target here, and that's still going in this way, you'll feel like the palms are basically you know, 180 degrees to each other.

That's the first thing I want you to feel. Palms are basically 180 degrees to each other, but my right hand is still aiming at the mass of the club. Now the mass of the club is not going to get here, at this point, until it's gone through effectively 180 degrees.

So we're here and our palms are 180 degrees, aiming-wise, apart and they're about 180 degrees on the arc apart. So I do not have to adjust my body in any way, contort myself, or do anything other than take my body, the right side of my body, work it around towards the target, and work to that position.

Now if we slowed that down, you would see that the right arm is not going from here 180 degrees and going this way. But as far as the body motion is concerned, it could do. Could go straight there. I don't have to feel like my body's got to make this whole big motion. My arm's set up to do just that along with the mass. The mass has got to go through a 180-degree arc, therefore, my right hand can go through that same 180-degree arc.

So what I want you to feel from that is, you do not have to necessarily push your hips one way or another. You don't have to necessarily move your arm in or contort your body in such a way to fit some picture that you like to see on a video. Motion of the right arm-- motion of right arm from here to here is going to be essentially like a slinging motion, but you don't have to do that. That slinging motion is what's going to happen as a result of this going with the club. All you got to do is get your body and turn it toward the target, let that club swing. That way.

While the club is above my hand, I have this cup feel. As I come down here, the club is still above my hand, so I want to maintain that cup feel. And it's the actual act of having the club come down that uncups the wrist. I'll show you that from down the line. So if I've got left wrist aiming at the inside back of the ball, still aiming there, still aiming there, turn the other way, it's still aiming there.

Now as the club head gets below my hands, that's taking out the cup in the wrist and flattening out my left wrist. I don't have to roll it in any fashion because I haven't rolled it this way to excess. Because I haven't rolled it this way, I don't have to roll it back. This way, don't need to roll it. Dump it down, it's going to flatten out the wrist.

Forearms working together, body turns the other way. Forearms still working together, still working together, wrists-- left wrist is still cupped, still cupped because the club head's above the hands. When I dump it down on the ball, the wrist will flatten out by virtue of the club head going from above to below the hands.

So, well, what we've shown here today is-- is-- we've shown what this movement is, why you want to do it, and how to do it-- how to put it into your game.

- Yeah.

- I'm sure that everybody watching this tape would like to hear a little bit about how you perceive it and how you have built this into your game.

- Yeah. So, you know, when I-- when I first went-- when we had talked about and we met and I wanted to see what-- what it was all about. And of course it was different for me, you know. I-- I-- I didn't know whether this was going to be something that I wanted to do, this winding, but as I-- but I knew, when you and I played, you told me, well, I'm never going to give this up.

And that was a strong-- that was strong to me. So I said, OK well, I'm going to give it a good-- I'm going to give it a good shot because I can see what you were doing with it. You had a lot of smash, very consistent. So as we've gone through on the tape and the people will follow, but you know, I'm not only been able to, you know, be consistent this year. I've, uh, I, uh, I increased my driving distance. I-- you know, I've put on like 10 yards, average, which is amazing on the tour, because if you increase your distance by one yard that's a lot.

But I-- not only that, I finished, you know, in the straightest drivers as well, you know. So I've always been able to play some pretty good golf on occasion but this year it was much easier for me to do. You know, I've been able to put all of this through the bag. You know, I've got my-- I've got myself wound, just my intent is that way, this-- this part going in is just so natural now for me. And I just, you know, throw it up, wind it. And I can leave it back there, leave it, leave it, leave it. I feel like I've almost finished the shot already.

- Yeah.

- And it's bang-- it's just gone, you know. So I sort of have this-- I've always been known to be a bit of a graceful player, but now I just feel-- I feel just so-- so natural. I can put my right arm-- the thing that I've always wanted to do, and Terry Okura there knows this the most, I've always wanted to have-- I got huge long arms, and-- and through my own undoing, I've always wanted to keep them lower, lower, lower but now I can put them where I want.

- That's right.

- And, you know, the leverage that I'm getting from that, the payoff that I'm getting, is I'm going just to the end of my swing. In other words, that's it. I'm making the same back swing every time, time again. Just every time, exactly the same spot.

- That's right.

- And the reason it's to the same spot is because it's to the spot that I want to put it at.

- Precisely.

- Does that make sense?

- Absolutely. When we film your swing, we never set the camera up a certain way. We're not worried about it because we're not going to measure an angle you're on.

- No.

- You're where you want to be. I'm not going to tell you, don't be there. If you feel so strongly that that's where you want to be--

- I want to be-- I want to be there.

- Why not?

- The only reason I wasn't there before was, I would go to that favorite spot which I felt like was-- I thought was good for me, but I wasn't getting the payoff. I-- I didn't have the power or whatever. I might have went lower and to try to pick up some power, maybe from a-- from a different source.

- Yeah. So you know, in this case, I'm wound, I feel good, you know, everything's just smooth. Really smooth. I'm up-- it pulls me up out of the ball. I haven't hardly ever had that. A lot of practice in it, I've always practiced hard-- a lot anyway.

I feel like I'm out there but I only-- no more than what Jackie Burke told me to be is a runner's stance.

- Yeah, that's right.

- You know, I'd just be in the blocks here.

- That's right. Fantastic.

- So I've got that going, which gives my arms a natural gravity. And if I even tweak those a little bit this way and that way, just internally, I'm locked down even more. And I can-- I can go against that.

- Yeah, so we basically-- we talked about that. We want to set up for that motion. We're almost already in there. It's not as difficult to make that first motion.

- I go there and that looks-- that look-- that looks very contrasty. Looks-- looks like it's too much. And then I'll-- I'll roll it up and I'm going to keep it back, keep it back, and keep it back, and keep it back, and keep it back. It's just, boom. It's just a-- feels like a-- it feels like a self-shooter.

- Yeah.

- OK? I know there's a lot of things going on there, but even as abstract as that looks, if I put all this in, I got that foot at my intent, is there. My toes down, my arms got the gravity on them. I'm working in and up and really lay it over. This is what it comes out to look like.

The craziest thing about your whole thing is, you can't see it. That's why I know he probably nailed the whole era of Hogan, in my opinion. Because-- I don't know if that's what he did, but he's got an end point. Do it every time. Got power to burn. Got control of the feet. The guy put extra spikes in his shoes. I know he had everything working that way. He was just a-- he was a human rubber-band.

I get in here with my driver and I-- I-- I feel like I'm in that quadrant. As Martin said, I've got that-- my intent is sort of there, with the body. I'm not moving over there, it's just my intent's there. My mind and my aim, my chest feels there. I'm in my runner's stance and I feel that half-moon that I told you about there-- or in Martin's case, there. It's just that everything's there and I'm just-- that resistance. I-- I feel the half-moon, you know, that we talked about. And then it won't go any further.


- So I start to roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll as far as it'll go. And it may look a little abstract right now, but I'm not worried about it because I know where the face is. I brushed on this earlier, but I like to go a little bit more in-depth on where I'm so aware of the face. I've got the face-- I've got the face there, I know where that face is. It's there, OK?

I roll it up. If I-- I feel it. I'm looking at it. I had eyes on my fingers there, I got the face right there. I got the face, I got the face, I got the face, I got the face, I got the face, I got the face, I got the face, --face and then just, bam. It's just-- bam. On it. And I had that acute awareness of that face.

- So as you're at the top there, you do that-- if you could do that rehearsal one more time for me.

- This feels abstract. It'll look abstract right now to the viewer, right?

- You're still going-- you're still going in the back swing direction, right? You haven't changed direction.

- Soon as I come down, I'm-- I want to go one more click that way, another click that way, another click that way, and another click that way, that way, that way. Until I'm just there and I just can't stop it anymore and just-- I got nothing left.

So I feel abstract there. That'll look abstract. Roll-- roll it up. I mean, crazy enough, I could just keep going, keep going, keep going. Look at this angle I've got here, it's just--

- Yeah.

- Just power to burn.

- That's what you feel and when you see it on video, you're like, why isn't it even a little bit that way?

- Boom. Boom.

So I'm going to put all that-- what I feel like is that abstractness in there.

- The reason I like to look at the swing from this angle, if you'll set up there, Elk, is, when I-- in the bunker and I drew this initial intent to come in here, and where the chest-- the intent of the chest is going to start from, it's pretty much face on to that. So for me, that's the-- the space between the two spinning discs, right? That's why I like to look at it from there, because I can see it more from here, how much you're doing.

- One of the things that I liked immediately about you and when you taught was, when I came up here like this and I had this arm up here, you said, I love that you got this big arm up here, you've got the big arm. And I'm like, God, hallelujah. I get to put my arm where I want to put it.

- Put it where you want it and put it on the ball.

- So I feel that, you know, there. I like that feel of that--

- Just hold that position. You can see here on the camera there's-- there's a certain geometry that you can see from this angle that you can't really see from face-on or down the line.

- And I'm going to wind it up. Up there, up there, up there, up there. As far as I-- that's as far as I can go. That's my endpoint. But when I-- when I-- when I turn the other way, I still want it to go, still want it to go, still want it to go, still want it to go. Can't go any further.

- You're ready to hit the ball now, right?


Both ends on the club, I'm going to put as much of that in there as I can in slow motion. Now, everything else is going to move to accommodate that right arm twirl.

Now the magic of this is, you can't see that in the swing. If I made my normal swing, I'm going to make that motion up to the normal speed. I'll make that motion at normal speed.

And you can't see all of that in there, but I'm trying to put it all in. I am putting it all in. Now, I'd love to put as much in as I can, to where you could see it, because the more of that I have, the more I know what position I'm, the more I know where the face is, and the more smash I can put on it.

So it's wound as much as it can this way. Wound as much as it can this way. Still going in, still going back. Body turns the other way. There, you've got all this energy to put on the ball.

In normal motion it won't show up quite the same way, but I'm still putting maximum roll in here. I'm still putting all of this in there. I'm turning the other direction. You see in the slow-motion swings, you might be able to see in the more fast-motion swings, and the reason for that would be the momentum of the mass of the club. It's going to change the position of what's going to happen in the swing, despite this feel being exactly the same.

So I'll make a very slow-motion swing here for you. I turn the other way as I'm still winding in. Another slow motion. Much as I can this way, as far as it'll go. Wind it up as far as it'll go this way. Where do I have it coming? Where can I smash it? Right here, so that's where I'm going.

You'll see part of the magic of this is it doesn't really show up in the swing, but I can assure you I'm winding the arm the same way.

- Oooh!

- There you go.

STEVE: Was that a wow?

- Wow! Yeah.

- There you go.

- OK.

- So you can hit it from closer now because you're not trying to pull out. You're not-- you're not doing it, you're just going straight down.

- Right.

- So you can hit it from anywhere. You can hit it from closer than that because you're only going to get to where you know you can hit it from and you're going to go ahead and hit it.

A pitcher in baseball. They don't take the ball back, out, away from them this way, out in front. They don't take it out here in front of them and out away to the side and then that's how they load it up. They load it up by taking the ball, essentially, behind them, in this fashion, you know. Their arm is rotated inwardly. Internal rotation of the shoulder joint here. And then they just take it back and their body then goes the other way.

And I believe, with pitching, it's the-- it's almost the act of the body going the other way that makes the arm create its whole motion this way. They don't have to try and feel like they've got to push their arm necessarily into-- into the motion that way but they will to increase it. You could make a slack-arm throw and it would-- it would still have a similar motion.

Just like you can-- in a golf swing, you can just have a slack right arm that just falls. And it's going to look pretty similar to what I'm advocating it's going to do. But it's going to feel totally different. Now a pitcher has-- you know, you got a full range of motion in the shoulder joint. So as you-- you inwardly rotate here and as your body turns the other direction, as this is still going back, takes the shoulder into an external rotation.

You're going to advocate the same thing in the golf swing. You don't want to roll out to an external rotation by trying to keep the right elbow, in this fashion. That's where we're going to be on the down swing. We don't have to do that on the back swing to ensure we're there on the down swing.

- We know that there's tons of other sports that have all kind of power in it. Baseball, hammer throw, tennis-- all these things that are-- you look at the thing and go wow, you know. When you and I first met, we were talking winding, of course.

- Right.

- But funny enough, we were winding the other way.

- Yeah.

- And I-- I want-- I want to talk to you a little bit about that because you're not that worried about-- uh-- we have two winding objects the opposite way here, but you-- I want you to talk--

- There's another way to do this.

- There's another way to do it. And we know that Tom Watson and even a current player like Dustin Johnson who really hits it long. And we know from other sports, in baseball, this is-- this is-- this is a fast ball. And we know that this is a-- this hand back the other way is more of a curve ball. So talk about the other way.

- Yeah, well the reason we went the other way--

- Originally.

- --originally was because of this abs-- this abstract one I showed you, what I was doing it like, that was too abstract at the time.

STEVE: In my head, yeah.

- It was a little bit too great a leap, at the time. But-- so-- and then you told me about, you'd had some success in the past, feeling like you were doing that with your wrist and it-- it was like that, right?

- Yeah. You'd felt like you were doing that.

- Felt like that.

- When you won--

- I won the PGA.

- --won the PGA like that. So--

- Felt-- felt like that.

- I had done that way first when I had originally had this concept in mind. It was easy for me because I k